Interesting poster

[Loed]

As in all things, there are some who will go off the deep end and become fanatics for a "cause". The environment is one of those and there are some who will take up their "cause" to the exclusion of all rational thought. Nothing else matters to them and they care not what or how the impact is when anything else comes into play. They are fanatics. It is most unfortunate that so many of our young people have been so influenced to become fanatics about the environmental cause without balancing other issues at work that also have equal importance.

No, you cannot drink petroleum ... but you also cannot feed your family on clean air alone. You can't live in the clean dirt and you can't sustain anything without people having jobs in the private sector. It is also unfortunate that ALL things cannot be viewed as a sum total without the fanatics doing their screaming and demanding legislation that damages the rights of individuals for free choice.

Most intelligent adults will recognize that yes, the environment is important but it is not the be-all and the end-all of everything. The fanatics will tell you it is. Our young people must learn that all things work in harmony and that saving the environment is just one of them. Right now, they are NOT getting that message.

Voting Green will not improve the country's economic base and will not promote smart stewardship of anything other than the environment issues. There's NO fiscal responsibility and no good workable plan for how anything will get funded. Raising taxes is not always the only way to do things and in the long run, can be very detrimental to the overall health of a country. It is important to look beyond just one issue and strive for overall balancing.

The problem is the world is a'changing, and with all due respect, many of the older generation just plain old do not get it.

Yes, I can live off of clean dirt alone actually(obviously not alone, it's called farming, just though I would add this since many here tend to ignore interpretations). In fact I would much prefer it to the turmoil that the older generation has created for our current social situation. Then again I exist in a room with one window, and a wall of servers. I have no car, I rent a small room for sleeping and every year I take two months off and do just that. I'm an exception to the rule.

I respect my elders, but the again any that I show a poster like this to agree with it.

Things are changing, but the elder generation is trying to keep that train on the same tracks from 50 years ago. It's time to derail and rebuild.

[grammafreddy]

Well said, Nab.

I also wonder what the *younger generation* is going to be willing to give up in order to attain what the poster here said they want.

On the rare occasions I am in a store of any kind, I look at their buggies and baskets and shake my head at the huge amounts of waste they purchase. The majority buy packaged foods already prepared, bagged, canned and frozen products that are heat and serve, clothing that is cheaply made but which they charge on their credit cards to buy at big $$ prices ... and all the tagging, packaging and wrapping and boxing plus trucking to get it to their stores. They appear to have lost any sense of value and will chose the $100 item over the identical $50 item at a different store or think their lives will end or they won't be acceptable to their peers if they can't have the "in" sneakers, skateboard, electronics that everyone else has.

Their concept of "saving the environment" only reaches as far as not inconveniencing themselves and what they want to do at any given moment for the majority of them. Their ideals of "helping the less fortunate" don't include their immediate neighbours or even their own countrymen, but for some reason it iis more holy and righteous to save some starving kid in some far off land than to make a pot of soup for an elderly neighbour or shovel their walk or mow their lawn. I guess writing a cheque or donating online or through their blackberry is just easier and takes seconds of their busy lives than it does to actually do something physically for somebody personally.

We see them incurring more and more debt and not seeming to think anything of it. To some of us older folks, we see that as cause for concern because if they don't recognize debt as being a bad thing, how will they equate that with their voting habits ... will they vote for all the goodies the leftist parties promise them and that they think they deserve - and the debt and much higher taxation that will result from that if they do not have any sense of personal financial responsibility in their own lives and in what they teach their children?

They seem to be constantly having to validate their existence by constant contact with everyone in their lives and even in the world through other contacts and telling everyone their minute by minute actions. The world does not need to know they are in the bathroom horking up their gizzards because they overindulged nor do they need to know any one of a gazillion other personal and intimate details of their lives they feel compelled to share - and we're not talking teeny-boppers here - these are supposedly mature adults in colleges and even with families who blab too much.

There is not much concept of privacy or of decency any more. There's no tact, no hesitance to doing anything if they decide that is what they want to say or do or buy.

And when these things are pointed out to them, they do not stop and think, "Does this apply to me?". Instead they instantly come out swinging about all the past wrongs that other people and political parties have wrought over the ages - and carry on doing exactly what it is they are doing that makes other people question their values, their morals and their judgement now.

[Loed]

How can we see "debt as a bad thing"? It's just a part of our lives we can do very little to avoid anymore.

We are forced into excessive debt just to get a decent job!

I know too many people that have gone to/been in school for 4+ years since their 2 year plan didn't pan out(less demand suddenly). The older people are just as poisonous for our society as far too many turn up their nose at the younger generation just trying to get a foot in the door. While many younger people are ignorant SOB's, the same applies to the older generation.

I don't care what anyone says, when my parents look at the world today and think "we never would have been able to make it as we did 30 years ago", means that something is wrong.

Education is great, but the worlds education system is USELESS right now, it accomplishes nothing and relies on over-priced secondary education to provide a work force.

[grammafreddy]

How can we see "debt as a bad thing"? It's just a part of our lives we can do very little to avoid anymore.

We are forced into excessive debt just to get a decent job!

I know too many people that have gone to/been in school for 4+ years since their 2 year plan didn't pan out(less demand suddenly). The older people are just as poisonous for our society as far too many turn up their nose at the younger generation just trying to get a foot in the door. While many younger people are ignorant SOB's, the same applies to the older generation.

I don't care what anyone says, when my parents look at the world today and think "we never would have been able to make it as we did 30 years ago", means that something is wrong.

Education is great, but the worlds education system is USELESS right now, it accomplishes nothing and relies on over-priced secondary education to provide a work force.

Like I just said ...

And when these things are pointed out to them, they do not stop and think, "Does this apply to me?". Instead they instantly come out swinging about all the past wrongs that other people and political parties have wrought over the ages - and carry on doing exactly what it is they are doing that makes other people question their values, their morals and their judgement now.

[Loed]

Show me where I am "coming out swinging" and ignoring that it might apply to me? Please GF.
If we do not learn from the past and adjust as we go, we are no better than them.
I think your mistaking concession for bewilderment.

You completely missed what my post was about. I agree with you on many points, but the debt right now is a hard thing to see eye to eye on. I understand your point regarding it, but how do you feel we should pay for a 60k+ education?

[I Think]

Loed, et al the under 30's,
I for one feel shame at the way we have crapped all over your inheritance, polluted the rivers, the land and the air. We are consuming petro - oil at such a rate that it will pretty much be gone in 50 more years, and it took millions of years to make. We are slashing down forests, and turning arable land into parking lots. I am as guilty as my peers and simply do not have time or energy (geezer here) to begin to correct the harm we have done you.

Sorry.

[Loed]

Nibs, I hold no ill will towards anyone of any age for the situation we are currently in. It is a culmination of many decisions, that will mired in greed and lies at times, were made at the time for the betterment of man-kind and in the name of progression.

Many "under 30's" would be extremely hard pressed to make different choices given equal circumstance.

What we currently have is a situation that will only escalate poorly and create a worsened situation than we already have.

A drastic change needs to happen, but too many are set in their ways. All generations are equally guilty of this.

[Ranger66]

“The majority buy packaged foods already prepared, bagged, canned and frozen products that are heat and serve, clothing that is cheaply made but which they charge on their credit cards to buy at big $$ prices ... and all the tagging, packaging and wrapping and boxing plus trucking to get it to their stores.”

This whole rollercoaster started in the fifties, cruised thru the sixties and hit high gear in the seventies. More and more people get on the ride every year. Our MacDonald’s addiction didn’t start in 1990. Our grandparents and parents all mortgaged their trip to the future. Unless you were born in 1910 or earlier you had a better life then your parents and that has happened for generations. Grandparents were responsible for their children and their children responsible for theirs; we trained them, if you don’t like what you see in today’s young people you need to look at you our footsteps. The path we are on needs to change and that will not happen as long as we keep lying to ourselves.

[grammafreddy]

Loed, et al the under 30's,
I for one feel shame at the way we have crapped all over your inheritance, polluted the rivers, the land and the air. We are consuming petro - oil at such a rate that it will pretty much be gone in 50 more years, and it took millions of years to make. We are slashing down forests, and turning arable land into parking lots. I am as guilty as my peers and simply do not have time or energy (geezer here) to begin to correct the harm we have done you.

Sorry.

I would feel sorrier if today's folks were not still building houses out of wood, not buying plastic packaged products, not demanding more farmland be destroyed for the building of more housing and roads and not feeding the corporate consumerism giants they all profess to hate so much. Again, they preach about how WE destroyed their world but they are continuing along the same path of destruction because they don't want to change their ways - they just want everyone else to change and want to blame some other peoples and some other generation for what is just the same as what they are doing. They still feel they are entitled to toss their Timmies cups out their car windows and expect that somebody else will clean it up.

[NAB]

Loed, et al the under 30's,
I for one feel shame at the way we have crapped all over your inheritance, polluted the rivers, the land and the air. We are consuming petro - oil at such a rate that it will pretty much be gone in 50 more years, and it took millions of years to make. We are slashing down forests, and turning arable land into parking lots. I am as guilty as my peers and simply do not have time or energy (geezer here) to begin to correct the harm we have done you.

Sorry.

HUH? It's not clear to me who you are referring to as "we" in that post nibs, particularly as to who it is currently doing the things you refer to. But I would say not to include me in that apology, nor any of the other over the hill "geezers" I know. And I'm certainly not ashamed of what "we" have done or do now. (Those who should feel ashamed are the one's doing it, the one's who can afford to because they are still working, and working at it).

When I look around at the ever growing pollution and the runaway consumption and greed on a massive scale that feeds it, it certainly isn't the "elders" that are doing it as a general way of life. Still, I fail to see what your comment has to do with the topic at hand anyway.

Nab

[Loed]

What do you propose we build our homes out of? By the by, a VERY small minority of under 30's "build homes", most that do that are closer to your generation than mine.

Most of the ones that "preach" about how you destroyed the world don't follow those same ideals.
The ones that do, subscribe to their elders examples.
Many, MANY I know subscribe to a "no debt, no waste" policy in their homes. I say homes, but I mean rentals. That's a step in the right direction.

Remember that, generations ahead follow the example set before them. Many do not have the ability to think outside of the box without many examples of success in that area.

How do you propose we avoid feeding the corporate consumerism?

Nothing changes over-night. I've seen a huge change in the under 30 crowd regarding sustainability, compared to what I saw back in the 90's.

So I'm sorry if you do not understand what's going on, you'll find that being disconnected will do that. The vocal majority(which is most commonly what you will hear about), doesn't reflect all. There is change afoot, but every, single, step, is met with opposition from the "elders". It takes time.

Again, you do realize that most of the people doing exactly what you lay out in your post are 30+, and probably 40+ is a more realistic idea. The owners of most companies and corporations are the ones pushing for a lot of what you complain about.

While I'm not exempting my generation from these idea's entirely, a good many of us are still filled with youthful hope that things can change for the better and actively participate/live by example to do so.

Loed, et al the under 30's,
I for one feel shame at the way we have crapped all over your inheritance, polluted the rivers, the land and the air. We are consuming petro - oil at such a rate that it will pretty much be gone in 50 more years, and it took millions of years to make. We are slashing down forests, and turning arable land into parking lots. I am as guilty as my peers and simply do not have time or energy (geezer here) to begin to correct the harm we have done you.

Sorry.

I would feel sorrier if today's folks were not still building houses out of wood, not buying plastic packaged products, not demanding more farmland be destroyed for the building of more housing and roads and not feeding the corporate consumerism giants they all profess to hate so much. Again, they preach about how WE destroyed their world but they are continuing along the same path of destruction because they don't want to change their ways - they just want everyone else to change and want to blame some other peoples and some other generation for what is just the same as what they are doing. They still feel they are entitled to toss their Timmies cups out their car windows and expect that somebody else will clean it up.

[Loed]

Yet, you forget who originally instilled this into society as a norm.
It came from somewhere, and the current younger generation was weened on greed and over-consumption.

Loed, et al the under 30's,
I for one feel shame at the way we have crapped all over your inheritance, polluted the rivers, the land and the air. We are consuming petro - oil at such a rate that it will pretty much be gone in 50 more years, and it took millions of years to make. We are slashing down forests, and turning arable land into parking lots. I am as guilty as my peers and simply do not have time or energy (geezer here) to begin to correct the harm we have done you.

Sorry.

HUH? It's not clear to me who you are referring to as "we" in that post nibs, particularly as to who it is currently doing the things you refer to. But I would say not to include me in that apology, nor any of the other over the hill "geezers" I know. And I'm certainly not ashamed of what "we" have done or do now. (Those who should feel ashamed are the one's doing it, the one's who can afford to because they are still working, and working at it).

When I look around at the ever growing pollution and the runaway consumption and greed on a massive scale that feeds it, it certainly isn't the "elders" that are doing it as a general way of life. Still, I fail to see what your comment has to do with the topic at hand anyway.

Nab

[NAB]

The boomer generation (those born roughly during the fifties and a few years on either end) most certainly are the ones who meet your criteria Loed with one major exception - they were for the most part neither born nor weaned on greed and overconsumption, nor excessive use of debt either that started to raise it's worst face among the boomers during the seventies and eighties. They did however become the generation that for the most part created most of the problems and excess expectations society now faces on all fronts. My kids (who are late era boomers) didn't get that from their parents, but they got it from somewhere fer sure although I am hard pressed to blame it on anything other than the Trudeau Liberals years at this point.

I'm not so sure yet whether their kids (my grandkids) will be better or worse off in terms of increased expectations against reduced possibilities, as they have never faced significantly difficult times .

Nab

[grammafreddy]

What do you propose we build our homes out of? By the by, a VERY small minority of under 30's "build homes", most that do that are closer to your generation than mine.

Most of the ones that "preach" about how you destroyed the world don't follow those same ideals.
The ones that do, subscribe to their elders examples.
Many, MANY I know subscribe to a "no debt, no waste" policy in their homes. I say homes, but I mean rentals. That's a step in the right direction.

Remember that, generations ahead follow the example set before them. Many do not have the ability to think outside of the box without many examples of success in that area.

How do you propose we avoid feeding the corporate consumerism?

Nothing changes over-night. I've seen a huge change in the under 30 crowd regarding sustainability, compared to what I saw back in the 90's.

So I'm sorry if you do not understand what's going on, you'll find that being disconnected will do that. The vocal majority(which is most commonly what you will hear about), doesn't reflect all. There is change afoot, but every, single, step, is met with opposition from the "elders". It takes time.

Again, you do realize that most of the people doing exactly what you lay out in your post are 30+, and probably 40+ is a more realistic idea. The owners of most companies and corporations are the ones pushing for a lot of what you complain about.

While I'm not exempting my generation from these idea's entirely, a good many of us are still filled with youthful hope that things can change for the better and actively participate/live by example to do so.

I feel like we are arguing in bits and pieces where I post a paragraph and you want to counter with a picking out a phrase or a word or two and just refute that part of my overall post.

Let's start with this:

How do you propose we avoid feeding the corporate consumerism?

It is the root of most of the problems. The very simple answer is: Stop spending foolishly. Don't go into debt for "wants". Learn to differentiate between "needs" and "wants". Make a budget and stick to it. Learn to live with less. Instead of always buying new, either do not buy or buy second hand.

Timmies every morning on the way to work, buying lunch every day, picking up fast food on the way home is not a "need". Some time, those people who do this should look at their math and check out how much they spend over a month. If they charge it and don't pay it off before interest kicks in, they are spending more than what it actually cost them originally ...

Ah, hell .... I give up. I've typed the same thing so many times even I am sick of it.

Go .... blow every penny you earn on things that make your little hearts go pitter patter. Vote for political parties that promise you even more little heart palpitations. Add to your debt load and increase your tax levels to pay for your toys and joys. Hate the corporations that provide you with jobs that pay for your toys. Teach your kids that they do not have to understand the law of finance - that for every debit there must be a credit. Let them bask in lives of "the government must give us free XXXX" without considering consequences to their demands - just as you do now. Mortgage your souls for decades to governments who offer easy streets to walk on immediately instead of fiscal responsibility for the future.

The older generation is not as stupid as the younger one wants to believe.

Which brings me back to the original post at the top of Page One ... the poster is insulting.

[Ranger66]

The younger generation is not as stupid as the older one wants to believe or sometimes the truth is hard to take.