Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

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Relentless
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Relentless »

RichardWede wrote:Sunset interchange is 1638 meters. Brenda and MacDonald are 1720 meters. Where the trucks were in the picture, is all over 1700 meters. Anything up from Damfino is over 1700 meters. Little White is 2170 meters. Canyon Lakes is all 1700 + meters.

Little White was included in an expanded parks proposal because the boggers had torn up the subalpine meadow below the old Brighthouse, as well as a meadow by Crawford Lake. Little White was not included in the original Myra-Bellevue Park plan, but was later incorporated because of this damage.

The 1700 meter closure is NOT from "messy hunters" or "messy party goers" or "messy ice fishermen." "Garbage" is not the focus of the legislation, as there are already littering laws to cover that.

It is a direct result of damage to sensitive alpine habitat by boggers, and to some extent, ATVers, and dirt bikers. It was proposed by the Regional Wildlife Biologist because of numerous complaints of what was happening in the alpine from wheeled vehicles, and has come to a head because of the focus on stopping mud boggers in the past few years. Snowmobiles will be exempt from any closure.

We're going to be losing a lot of access due to irresponsible behaviour by some individuals.


Where is the link to support this 1700 meter law????
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Rwede
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Rwede »

UltraViolet wrote:
RichardWede wrote:Sunset interchange is 1638 meters. Brenda and MacDonald are 1720 meters. Where the trucks were in the picture, is all over 1700 meters. Anything up from Damfino is over 1700 meters. Little White is 2170 meters. Canyon Lakes is all 1700 + meters.

Little White was included in an expanded parks proposal because the boggers had torn up the subalpine meadow below the old Brighthouse, as well as a meadow by Crawford Lake. Little White was not included in the original Myra-Bellevue Park plan, but was later incorporated because of this damage.

The 1700 meter closure is NOT from "messy hunters" or "messy party goers" or "messy ice fishermen." "Garbage" is not the focus of the legislation, as there are already littering laws to cover that.

It is a direct result of damage to sensitive alpine habitat by boggers, and to some extent, ATVers, and dirt bikers. It was proposed by the Regional Wildlife Biologist because of numerous complaints of what was happening in the alpine from wheeled vehicles, and has come to a head because of the focus on stopping mud boggers in the past few years. Snowmobiles will be exempt from any closure.

We're going to be losing a lot of access due to irresponsible behaviour by some individuals.


Where is the link to support this 1700 meter law????


It's not on the internet yet that I know of. Phone the Regional Wildlife Biologist (Mr Brian Harris) at the Penticton MoE office 250-490-8200 and he will tell you about it, since you obviously won't take my word for it.
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quagmaire
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by quagmaire »

It's not that we won't take your word for it, it's just.... well,
Who are you and how do you know this? (it's an anonymous forum!)

And again, why are snowmobiles exempt?
Giggidy, Giggidy

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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Rwede »

quagmaire wrote:It's not that we won't take your word for it, it's just.... well,
Who are you and how do you know this? (it's an anonymous forum!)

And again, why are snowmobiles exempt?



I know this because I'm involved with outdoors groups that have been asked by the government for input on this regulation.

Snowmobiles are exempt because they don't cause damage to sensitive alpine habitats like mudboggers do. Simple.
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quagmaire
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by quagmaire »

So, to clarify, a machine that sits on top of the snow doesn't cause damage to sensitive areas.
Gotcha.
Giggidy, Giggidy

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by NotLikeYou »

RichardWede wrote:
quagmaire wrote:It's not that we won't take your word for it, it's just.... well,
Who are you and how do you know this? (it's an anonymous forum!)

And again, why are snowmobiles exempt?



I know this because I'm involved with outdoors groups that have been asked by the government for input on this regulation.

Snowmobiles are exempt because they don't cause damage to sensitive alpine habitats like mudboggers do. Simple.




I called a CO and asked, they had no clue, The one I talk to is one of 2 that work in the penticton office, IM sure they would know this as well. Well, He had heard nothing of this.

What groups are you apart of just out of curiosity?
What did your groups find was being damaged and what animals did it effect? and as well what water sheds have been effected and what were the effects of them?
What did your "groups" have to tell the government anyways,


and lastly, This alpine area you speak of, (wich in the summer looks like most regular areas around here ) What is it protecting?
it seems as if any place with tree's mountains and water is some sort of alpine water shed or bird sanctuary.

for example, Shannon lake park, a group of old people have turned it into "bird sanctuary" I see a lot of animal sanctuarys these day's with golf courses on the sides of them,

OR when they wanted to make the bear main dirt bike track,, people JUST LIKE YOU tried to claim it was protected lan for deer and all this bs, I never knew deer like sandy area's with dead tree's and not much vegatation, lol

It just looks like a pattern to me, When someone doesnt want something in the woods, They try there hardest to only show the bad people of the sport and bad things done. and never the good and then a new law comes out and yet another sport, and another group of people left to find another hobby. Wonder why we have SO many bar goers and druggies in this town eh.

Sheeple!!!


isn't one large mountain park enough!!! for this area atleast!
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cv23
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by cv23 »

NotLikeYou wrote:It just looks like a pattern to me, When someone doesnt want something in the woods, They try there hardest to only show the bad people of the sport and bad things done. and never the good and then a new law comes out and yet another sport, and another group of people left to find another hobby.


Maybe if those involved in this "sport" policed the wrongful actions of others causing damage in the back country there would be no, or hopefully less, examples of "bad people of the sport and bad things done" for anyone to bring to the public's attention?

Another alternative which has been brought up yet you seem to try and totally ignore is for you "enthusiasts" to band together and purchase a piece of private property specifically for your purpose. I myself enjoy and participate in auto racing but I do so at a private track not on the streets or just anywhere I feel like or that I somehow feel entitled to use for my benefit. There are lots of acreages available all over the area and with a bit of work any one of them would make a great off-road park. Hold events and charge admission, throw fund raisers to help pay for and maintain the facility. If the "sport" is as big as you believe it to be around here then this off-road park should actually be not only an enjoyable place but a profitable one too. It would be yours to do with as you please and the public back country would be left for those who's activities while in it don't cause damage to it.
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Rwede »

NotLikeYou wrote:
RichardWede wrote:
quagmaire wrote:It's not that we won't take your word for it, it's just.... well,
Who are you and how do you know this? (it's an anonymous forum!)

And again, why are snowmobiles exempt?



I know this because I'm involved with outdoors groups that have been asked by the government for input on this regulation.

Snowmobiles are exempt because they don't cause damage to sensitive alpine habitats like mudboggers do. Simple.




I called a CO and asked, they had no clue, The one I talk to is one of 2 that work in the penticton office, IM sure they would know this as well. Well, He had heard nothing of this.

What groups are you apart of just out of curiosity?
What did your groups find was being damaged and what animals did it effect? and as well what water sheds have been effected and what were the effects of them?
What did your "groups" have to tell the government anyways,


and lastly, This alpine area you speak of, (wich in the summer looks like most regular areas around here ) What is it protecting?
it seems as if any place with tree's mountains and water is some sort of alpine water shed or bird sanctuary.

for example, Shannon lake park, a group of old people have turned it into "bird sanctuary" I see a lot of animal sanctuarys these day's with golf courses on the sides of them,

OR when they wanted to make the bear main dirt bike track,, people JUST LIKE YOU tried to claim it was protected lan for deer and all this bs, I never knew deer like sandy area's with dead tree's and not much vegatation, lol

It just looks like a pattern to me, When someone doesnt want something in the woods, They try there hardest to only show the bad people of the sport and bad things done. and never the good and then a new law comes out and yet another sport, and another group of people left to find another hobby. Wonder why we have SO many bar goers and druggies in this town eh.

Sheeple!!!


isn't one large mountain park enough!!! for this area atleast!



The groups I'm part of advocate for access for all backcountry users. The only caveat is that the users respect the environment when they are out there. Should be simple enough, unless you get a charge out of blasting your mudbogger through the middle of a swamp or ripping a meadow to shreds. Then you'd have a problem with the new regulations and would be one of those with whom my groups may have an issue.

Of the THREE COs in the Penticton office (there are actually 3 counting Barb, the CO Supervisor), 2 of the 3 were at a meeting in Penticton on April 30 to discuss this regulation, according to the briefing notes I received. So, if you talked with Jim B, you should instead ask Bob H or Barb L, who are listed as attendees at the regulations meeting.

From the meeting notes:

ACCESS
Regulation: Prohibit the operation of motorized vehicles, excluding snowmobiles, above 1700m except on existing roads and trails
Rationale: Reduce damage to alpine habitat
• This proposal was already approved at a previous OK Region FHAC Meeting
• This would be a blanket closure to all motorized vehicles
• Motorized vehicles would be allowed to operate on existing established trails
• Forest and Range Practices Act has terminology that describes established roads as being a “bladed structure”, i.e. create by a dozer etc.
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by NotLikeYou »

I thought the penticton office only had hoyer and seites (sorry for name spelling) and one of them retired, and the new guy is just a young pup in training and is being transfered in 2-3 months, never talked to the lady tho,


If this new law is pushed through your going to see a lot of reprocussion from it IMO
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Rwede
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Rwede »

NotLikeYou wrote:I thought the penticton office only had hoyer and seites (sorry for name spelling) and one of them retired, and the new guy is just a young pup in training and is being transfered in 2-3 months, never talked to the lady tho,


If this new law is pushed through your going to see a lot of reprocussion from it IMO


You're talking about the Kelowna office. Greg Hoyer retired 3 years ago. The new guy in the Kelowna office is Terry Myroniuk, is and is far from being a "young pup."

Somehow, I'm getting the feeling you didn't speak with anyone...
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quagmaire
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by quagmaire »

RichardWede wrote:
The groups I'm part of advocate for access for all backcountry users. The only caveat is that the users respect the environment when they are out there. Should be simple enough, unless you get a charge out of blasting your mudbogger through the middle of a swamp or ripping a meadow to shreds. Then you'd have a problem with the new regulations and would be one of those with whom my groups may have an issue.

*snip*

From the meeting notes:

ACCESS
Regulation: Prohibit the operation of motorized vehicles, excluding snowmobiles, above 1700m except on existing roads and trails
Rationale: Reduce damage to alpine habitat
• This proposal was already approved at a previous OK Region FHAC Meeting
• This would be a blanket closure to all motorized vehicles
• Motorized vehicles would be allowed to operate on existing established trails
• Forest and Range Practices Act has terminology that describes established roads as being a “bladed structure”, i.e. create by a dozer etc.


Richard, without seeing the exact legislation, this shouldn't affect me or any of the people that I enjoy the back country with.
In fact I kind of like how this is worded. Except I would have put :
"Prohibit the operation of motorized vehicles, excluding vehicles capable of supporting its own gross weight on the surface of the snow pack, above 1700m except on existing roads and trails"
I'm a bit biased though...

Now, back to the original topic;
I'm going to suggest (and at the same time make a sweeping generalization) that a lot of the people who do the damage are young and ignorant: They simply don't know the implications of their actions. This is why I suggest (especially to the younger guys and gals) to go join a club!
You get to talk to like minded individuals, you always have a wheeling partner (NEVER go out alone!), you have access to people with experience (and sometimes spare parts!) and, most importantly, you learn how to be a responsible user of the back country.
A side benefit is that if a large enough group of 'like minded individuals' were to organize, they might have the power (resources) to secure some private land to create a mud pit and hold events, if that is the direction the club wanted to proceed.
As an individual (even one with a love of motorsports) I have no interest in turning over a piece of my property to stage such a thing.
As some one asked earlier: why?
Money.
I'm not willing (as an individual) to front the insurance costs, equipment rental, permit fees, etc. not to mention the time to organize the whole thing in the hopes that enough show up to pay the entrance fees.
Now, if I were approached by an organized group? I'd be willing to look at their proposal. But it better be a proper proposal with resources in place to address the logistics of such an event.
Giggidy, Giggidy

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
Mack of Trades
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Mack of Trades »

ok this be step 1 to getting a lil more orgaized ....if anyone in here has facebook i have created a group on facebook the description is stated as this

"This group I intended for outdoor motorized enthusiast to come together and bring events back to the Okanagan, in the years passed outdoor events and motorized hobbies have been stripped from us, more and more every year we lose more and more rights to enjoy the sports of 4x4ing /dirt biking and generally enjoying our motorized vehicles in the outback’s of are beautiful area.

With places being destroyed by some irresponsible persons and uneducated outdoor enthusiast it has tarnished the view people have towards the sport and hobbies of back country exploring and weekend fun. In this group you are free to discuss your opinions for the sport pro’s/cons. There will be a level of respect to follow in this group as a whole and if you have fact less negative things to say without any positive input towards a solution and to what is trying to be achieved here in this group you will most definitely be removed ,as this is a group to bring together people for the purpose of bringing organized events back to the Okanagan area in hopes to creating annual events in order to save our back country from damage and to bring a much needed level of respect to the way it is treated and the way people look at the number of outdoor motorized enthusiasts . Your opinions are valued in here if they are for the greater good of achieving the goals of creating organized events to perhaps even bring in some financial positive to open more doors for more events .

Thanks for joining this group now let’s work together combining all of you 4 wheelers 2 wheelers boggers etc. and see what we can do. I know a lot of people out there love to 4x4, dirt bike , mud bog and whatever else that those “definitions “ would cover . Enjoying the outdoors with your machines is not only fun it’s a lifestyle..
Please enjoy, and share this group with everyone you know and let’s get it organized…

feel free to send pictures or vids "



if you wish to be part of this group it is open for your joining..to find it on facebook just do a search for Okanagan area 4x4 and Outdoor Event Organization. and for those of you who want to make a serious effort towards saveing our hobbies / sports/ lifestyle , i will be placeing those active members as admins to help with the screening processes in this group and to help arrange get togethers or organized events/ meetings around town thanks everyone for there input much appritiated
come join us on facebook and lets get treadin .....Okanagan area 4x4 and Outdoor Event Organization[/size] ask to join our group .lets find a solution to reducing damage ,re-using the area ,and recycling the idea's:)
dlarrivee
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by dlarrivee »

You want to drive through mud bogs, you're never going to have a positive image... Facebook isn't the answer, staying out of the water and mud is.
Mack of Trades
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by Mack of Trades »

dlarrivee wrote:You want to drive through mud bogs, you're never going to have a positive image... Facebook isn't the answer, staying out of the water and mud is.


lack of knowlage is all that needs to be said there :) .......so your saying if you drive in mud your gonna have a negative image ? better tell everyone in town to pave there driveways and to stay off any unpaved roads while your at it ;) the topic is to bring organized events to the okanagan ,,,,ORGANIZED ...meaning bringing it out of the bush and water sheds ,,,,preventing further enviromental damage so on ,,,geeeesh :dyinglaughing: some peoples children i tell ya lol and i also suppose its who your asking because some of the links i have posted in here to oranized events seem to have alot of familys and people out enjoying them ,,,,so if you mean a tree hugger opinion about people in our sport /hobbie lifestyle ,,,,i have a opinion about them ...as they drive there car ,fill it with gas , buy there computers , eat fast food so on so forth hipocrits is what alot of them are :)
come join us on facebook and lets get treadin .....Okanagan area 4x4 and Outdoor Event Organization[/size] ask to join our group .lets find a solution to reducing damage ,re-using the area ,and recycling the idea's:)
dlarrivee
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Re: Kelowna mud bogging and outdoor 4x4ing annual events

Post by dlarrivee »

So what do you drive then?

And where do you plan to "mud bog" this thing and NOT be in a watershed?

Also since you want to have huge organized groups of people, you should probably start reading up on the permits, and insurance your events will require...
http://www.frontcounterbc.gov.bc.ca/

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