Public engagement

[Dawnland]

Twobits;
You suggested that something nefarious was happening with the beach and btw, if you called instead of insinuating, you would have found out that there is WAYYY less money being transferred than before. It wasn't a case of missing the income, it was a case of plans being delayed at this point.
The city was worried about the visual impact at the entrance to the city, with good cause, it was bad. I agree, they should have been out there cleaning their own land, that's not what you had eluded to in your previous comments.

[XT225]

Twobits;
You suggested that something nefarious was happening with the beach and btw, if you called instead of insinuating, you would have found out that there is WAYYY less money being transferred than before. It wasn't a case of missing the income, it was a case of plans being delayed at this point.
The city was worried about the visual impact at the entrance to the city, with good cause, it was bad. I agree, they should have been out there cleaning their own land, that's not what you had eluded to in your previous comments.

Definitely, the Locatee let down his own band members but that's his decision. So, Dawnland WHO is now leasing the beach? The City, once again?

[twobits]

Twobits;
You suggested that something nefarious was happening with the beach and btw, if you called instead of insinuating, you would have found out that there is WAYYY less money being transferred than before.

There better be wayyyy less money being transferred when the taxpayers of Penticton have to move in and clean someone else's diaper while the Locatee waits for Mary Poppins and her purse to show up.
Dawnland, this is not two community's, Nations if you prefer, co operating in the spirit of mutual advancement. This is a lazy butt Locatee looking for a cheque and the only reason the damn beach got cleaned up was because so many complaints were made to City Hall, which in turn put heat on the PIB administration....to maintain "spirit of co operation", that the Locatee was quite clearly told to step up and clean up or it will be difficult if not impossible for the PIB to support any future plans you might have for your lands.
This is what i believe to be true and am hopeful it is because if we are to work together as two communities side by each, with common goals of advancement for both, PIB Admin cannot say we are on the same page and then say we have no control over Locatee's and what they choose to do with their titled lands. Be it leaving a beach to the entrance of town going to weeds or a select few that think it is their inherent right to have horses run where ever they want.
The ball is in your court Dawnland. Prove to those of us that are skeptical, that you are equal partners to do business with. Show us that your Admin actually has the stones to quit dancing around a select few Locatee's that have nothing but their interests in mind. Show us you actually can compel if not able to enforce Locatee owners to abide by and to conform to community accepted uses. And when I say "Community", I mean as one, with a common goal, equal playing field as to laws and regulations. That "Community" in my world will embrace and value different cultures and cherish the diversity as being positive things like experiencing different foods, music and history.
My "Community" however does not grant special privileges that no other "community" does not equally enjoy.

[Dawnland]

Wow, this coming from a city that had nearly reared up and barfed over the return of the railroad lands to the Band.
I saw the RDOS transcript of comments during that whole transition. Your 'community' was ready to burn us to the ground. Your skeptical bunch would rather hold onto old beliefs instead of evaluating the current environment.
The city and the Band have reached a mutual understanding and shared goals of economic development and respect. There has been a protocol agreement signed and renewed, utilities departments and upgrades created, improved economic development as well as new arrangements with DIAND increasing our capacity and expediency for development. Yet, I have to prove to you? What do you think has been going on here for the last ten years? Heck, you care so little about what happens out here that you didn't even know what a 'locatee' was until just recently. You just sat back and pointed a finger without actually finding out, first hand. That's why the ball isn't in my court, twobits, because you took the ball and went home with it complaining that I didn't pay any tax on it. Sure we have some owners who aren't on the same page as the Band and the City, with the bridge, taxation and lands policies in place, it will change because the nature of economics out here has adapted to suit all members. But hey, I'm just going to hang out at the library and take out a book because one of those service agreements that the Band pays to the city, I get to do that.

My "Community" however does not grant special privileges that no other "community" does not equally enjoy.

Tell that to all the new second-class Canadians.

[Dawnland]

XT; there is no current lease for that property. The owners have come to a usage agreement with the city, use the beach, we'll put a pretty welcome to Penticton sign on our land, and you folks provide maintenance to the beach. Now if the locatee owner won't even pull their own weeds, let's see how long it takes for that sign to be put up.
*Now imagine if the three mile naturist group leased that beach...Folks driving into town with the pretty new Penticton sign and a plethora of pink running around. Too funny.

[XT225]

XT; there is no current lease for that property. The owners have come to a usage agreement with the city, use the beach, we'll put a pretty welcome to Penticton sign on our land, and you folks provide maintenance to the beach. Now if the locatee owner won't even pull their own weeds, let's see how long it takes for that sign to be put up.
*Now imagine if the three mile naturist group leased that beach...Folks driving into town with the pretty new Penticton sign and a plethora of pink running around. Too funny.

Thanks for that info, Dawnland. Good to know what's happening with it. No problem at all. Sounds like a win win for everyone for the time being.

[twobits]

XT; there is no current lease for that property. The owners have come to a usage agreement with the city, use the beach, we'll put a pretty welcome to Penticton sign on our land, and you folks provide maintenance to the beach. Now if the locatee owner won't even pull their own weeds, let's see how long it takes for that sign to be put up.
*Now imagine if the three mile naturist group leased that beach...Folks driving into town with the pretty new Penticton sign and a plethora of pink running around. Too funny.

Thanks for that Dawnland. You have just confirmed what I and others suspected. I also had a PM conversation with another member about it.
There is no lease. Locatee is waiting for Mary Poppins to show up. The reason the land got cleaned up was because of pressure from the 100 blk of main street being downloaded to PIB Admin.
Locatee owner told PIB Admin "I ain't paying to clean up the beach and you can't make me". And after some more pressure from PIB Admin to said locatee, locatee says "tell the friggen city to clean it up if it bothers them so much but I am not paying for it. I told the public they could use it. I didn't say I would maintain it like it was."
The irony here is that the locatee no longer gets the lease payments the City was paying up until this year, the general public continues to have use of the beach, and all the City is paying for it is the cost of maintenance which they had been paying for already.......until Mary Poppins shows up.
Why did we have to wait until the weeds were 3 ft tall and over half way thru the tourist season for this to happen? And this is exactly why the ball is in your court Dawnland. Get your house in order cuz when one locatee can snub an entire community with attitudes as displayed, you have a long road in front of you in matters of trust with the voters on this side of the channel despite bridges, sewer, or library agreements.

[Dawnland]

Twobits; How bout you fill me in on how we are to 'pressure' this one locatee owner, legally? And if only one of our locatee owners is an issue for you, I think I don't need to prove anything. You have a whole 'community' ripping each other apart over waterslides, you really think pointing a shady finger at one locatee owner, make the rest of us any more 'irresponsible'? Btw, this same owner has had responsibility issues since the early '80s was as far back as I can remember, so don't think this isn't the same old song and dance. What is different though, is the registered leases and tax base associated with it. Why do you think there was no lease signed with the city and only a user agreement? Like I said, the economic environment has changed, and with that, so must the locatee owner (if they want to keep raking in the lease cheques). Don't think we don't have our house in order. (yeah, that ball, our whole community hit it over the fence).
*And if you know so damn much about the situation, why did you even spout innuendo in the first place? If you knew there was no lease, why suggest there is? Did you find out first-hand or find out from a second cousins boss?

[maryjane48]

Hopefully, PIB didnt have to hire City crews to do the work; when there must be Band members ready and willing to do the work.

whats your point on this?

[twobits]

Vixen, there is no point in further comment. Some of us have been around long enough to see multiple agreements made with every level of gov't that don't make it to the shovel in the ground. And everyone of those times it has been Locatee owners that have scuttled the agreement. When your admin actually has some say on land use on all lands contained within your boundaries like City's, Municipalities, and Regional Districts.....that have community plans in place with things such as zoning and appropriate use....and can enforce them, then we can talk about mutual advancement of interests that are not hit or miss propositions.
Your house has hit it out of the park in your mind only. The reality is you cannot even decide on the batting order after the first inning because you don't know what player is going to show up in the top of the third and swing their weight of Locatee rights.

You folks can't even get to the second inning with the Locatee's that think it's OK to have horses trample every yard on the rez and everything else between the mountains and the lake. When your Admin can demonstrate they have at least that much control to deal with such a really basic fundamental land use and rights issue, myself and many others might actually start to view you as willing partners in solving joint community issues.

[Dawnland]

The locatee owners have nothing to do with the horses. Two totally separate issues as some of those horses aren't owned by locatee members. It isn't their 'weight' in decision making that is holding things up either. It seems as though you are basing your opinion on only your perception of what is happening out here and not on actual facts and plans.
I don't even want to take the time to explain it because the next time something happens out here, you'll be crapping all over that too. Then I'll just have to reiterate what I said in this thread. I believe we went through some of these items both with Boonstock and the Skaha Hills thread.
How's this for public engagement; think of a time where something happened in Penticton that caused a change...Now remember the comments made. SOEC, frank the baggage handler, the new rec centre, Boonstock, Rock the Peach, the Okanagan walkway redo, skaha developments, bridge to nowhere, even three mile.
If I were the communications coordinator for the city of Penticton. I would make sure to get training in change management because those of your ilk need a special kind of communicator to help you through it.

[ToddT]

Dawland I support your positive rhetoric but TwoBits is basing his argument on historical data. It's hard to argue with facts and history. I hope in the future things change but it's not looking that way. It only takes a couple of bad apples.

[maryjane48]

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[the truth]

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[Dawnland]

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