Who else rose from dead?

[janalta]

They do - and each of them had a physical being that they followed and believed in. We may perceive what people believe in was a lie, but they don't - and having that physical being to follow makes it easier for them to believe in what they perceive to be the truth.

So yes, for me, the fact that so many people back in that time were following the Gospel of the Apostles and teachings of Jesus is a very strong argument (for me) that Jesus was a physical being - and your examples actually strengthened my view.

What they all believed in, who they all believed in, was all a scam.

No one can deny that there probably was an actual person named Jesus, who was a preacher.
That does not make him divine, nor does it make the stories about him true.

All have a common theme...that some people are so desperate to believe, that they will believe anything you tell them.

Do you believe that the leaders of these cults were messengers of god ?
Does the fact that they conned believers into dying for their cause make that so ?

[Glacier]

No one can deny that there probably was an actual person named Jesus, who was a preacher.

I agree with you, but lots of people deny that.

[Dizzy1]

No one can deny that there probably was an actual person named Jesus, who was a preacher.
That does not make him divine, nor does it make the stories about him true.

I don't disagree with you on that, they are 2 very different arguments. The only point I was trying to make is that by all likelihood, Jesus was in fact, an actual person.

The interesting thing about this thread, is that it was somewhat sparked by a comment by a poster in another thread where they said that St.Nick was a real person but Jesus wasn't. The one common thing that all religions have is their purpose, follow our faith, live how we feel you should live and you will be rewarded. In other words, it could be argued that it is a way to control society into living and behaving how you want them to. Now take a look at Santa Claus, what does Santa Claus do? He brings toys to all the good little boys and girls - "good" being the key word. So in other words, kids listen to their parents and behave and they'll be rewarded. Control ;)

[maryjane48]

no it wasnt , check the dates of the threads . i said in other thread i started a thread here on stories similar to jesus because i dnt want go off topic in other thread to make my point .

[janalta]

I suppose the downfall of Jesus was choosing the wrong era. No mass media, no reliable written history.
There is however, historical proof of St Nicholas.

There is no doubt that religious indoctrination of children is based on control through fear. Be good...or else.
The real problem is that many religions are starting kids out by setting them up to feel like failures.
No human is perfect, no one should ever expect perfection from their children.
To instill the fear of god into them can have very negative implications that can last a lifetime - of not being good enough. Christianity is set upon the basis that we , as humans, are inherently bad.
What a horrible, cruel thing to instill in your kids.

At least the Santa myth only comes with the threat of not getting toys...instead of eternal damnation.

[Glacier]

Christianity is set upon the basis that we , as humans, are inherently bad.

We are. One need only observe children, that when left to their own devices are incredibly self-centred and nasty. I know some hippies who rejected the idea that human nature is inherently bad, and their children turned out horrible even though the hippie folks were really nice people. The reason children need training and correction is because humans are bad when left to their own devices. Cue the Lord of the Flies.

[janalta]

We are. One need only observe children, that when left to their own devices are incredibly self-centred and nasty. I know some hippies who rejected the idea that human nature is inherently bad, and their children turned out horrible even though the hippie folks were really nice people. The reason children need training and correction is because humans are bad when left to their own devices. Cue the Lord of the Flies.

There is a huge difference between the natural self centered behavior of very young children and being 'bad, sinful, mean, or unworthy'. Self centered behavior in children is a matter of firstly, survival, and secondly, simple biology. The prefrontal cortex of the brain is not fully developed...which is also the part of the brain involved in self control.
Empathy comes only with maturation and experience....and yes, being taught how to treat others.

That is not the same thing that religion teaches.
According to Christianity....we were all born with 'sin' built right in to us.

Babies can and are conceived in the state of sin "Who can make him clean that is conceived of unclean seed ?..."(Job xiv.4) and "For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me." (Ps. l. 7).

Seriously...why would anyone, ever, lead innocent children to believe that they are unworthy and sinful ?

[Glacier]

Seriously...why would anyone, ever, lead innocent children to believe that they are unworthy and sinful ?

I've never heard anyone teach such garbage, and I have many friends and family that go to church regularly. You must have grown up in a seriously messed up church to learn such lies. You need to tell that priest/pastor that taught you this crap to take things in context. One verse from Job written by a man suffering severe depression doesn't provide much context. Doing so leads to people like Thinktank making crazy threads about how the Bible says no one should have money (it's evil apparently), or the guy who thought that the Bible said that the perfect food was milk and honey, totally destroying his health after almost exclusively eating milk and honey for a year.

[janalta]

You've never heard such a thing ?
And yet, millions of Christians believe that one must be baptised in order to wash away sin.

All true Christians see baptism as a sign of sins being washed away and of being united with Christ's death and resurrection. All true Christians see baptism as a seal of God's grace for sinners, not of our own goodness. All true Christians see baptism as a mark by which God claims a person and requires faith, love, and obedience

http://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/po ... e-baptized

Original sin is an Augustine Christian doctrine that says that everyone is born sinful. This means that they are born with a built-in urge to do bad things and to disobey God

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... in_1.shtml

The sacrament of Baptism is the beginning of life—supernatural life.
Because of original sin, we come into the world with a soul which is supernaturally dead. We come into the world with only the natural endowments of human nature. The supernatural life which is the result of God's personal and intimate indwelling, is absent from the soul.
Original sin is not, in the strict sense, a "blot" upon the soul. Indeed, original sin is not a "something" at all. It is the absence of something that should be there. It is a darkness where there ought to be light.
When the sacrament of Baptism is administered, the spiritual vacuum which we call original sin disappears as God becomes present in the soul

http://www.beginningcatholic.com/baptism.html

[Hmmm]

I think its the unworthy part thats weird. Yes, we're all sinful and that is why we die. Romans 6:23 In other words we are all imperfect. And yes, the Bible teaches we need to accept the price paid for all if we want to benefit from it. The benefit is eternal life. John 3:16 That is the message and it emphasizes Gods love for all and not that we're all unworthy.

[janalta]

I think its the unworthy part thats weird. Yes, we're all sinful and that is why we die. Romans 6:23 In other words we are all imperfect. And yes, the Bible teaches we need to accept the price paid for all if we want to benefit from it. The benefit is eternal life. John 3:16 That is the message and it emphasizes Gods love for all and not that we're all unworthy.

Matthew 10:37

"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me.

The amazing truth is that Christ died for utterly unworthy people (Rom. 5:7-8). To minimize our unworthiness by emphasizing our value is to minimize the redemptive work of Christ on our behalf. The fact that Christ died for us is never given in Scripture as a proof of our value as wonderful people, but a demonstration of his unfathomable love. So unfathomable that he would die for rotten people, “wretches” like you and me.

The cross of Christ is a demonstration of God’s utter goodness and grace, and our utter depravity and unworthiness. Indeed, the idea that God died for morally good or morally neutral “souls” is a heresy of the worst kind. It is “psychologically correct” (that is, popularly believed in psychological circles), but it is theologically as incorrect as it could possibly be.

http://www.biblestudytools.com/bible-st ... cross.html

Parents, churches are teaching children these things.
Imagine the impact on a child's self esteem when they hear this kind of nonsense.
It's disturbing.

[maryjane48]

why does confession start with forgive me father for i have sinned ? because in gods eyes we are sinners , we let some mythical be8ng judge us ? lunacy