No EI for the unvaccinated
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- Buddha of the Board
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
As circumstances change, the implied employment contract changes.dirtybiker wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 11:10 amNot sure the line of thought there. Why would EI end up as 'dud'
Employment conditions being changed mid stroke as to not
be beneficial to both parties should not affect an applicants
EI status.
Benefits were paid in. It is the company that changed a policy that was
causation for any employees facing dismissal.
Not the employees quality of their craft.
I see nothing on the employee, all employer.
Give 'em their EI, They more than earned it, it is their money to
access, Oh, I also contribute monies to the program, so, for my money,
I say grant it !
sidenote' absolute zero of any of this affects me in my field.
No one gives two spits about about the show outside our own
ring in the tent. We play to the crowd of our own circus.
When we didn't know about the hazards of asbestos, a set of working rules applied, and were changed. If workers refused to comply, out the door for cause.
When we didn't know about the real hazards of smoking, you could sit at your desk and smoke. A new set of rules came in when we did. Employees who did not comply were dismissed for cause.
In both of those examples, employees had an option they did not choose and therefore did not get EI. That's the way it works.
Conditions have changed again. Health and safety rules change and improve all the time. You either comply or get dismissed for cause. Dismissed for cause = no EI.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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- Grand Pooh-bah
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
So the gov should just mandate vaccination, period. Its stupid and cowardly to say "well, you don't have to but you can't work, go anywhere or get EI".
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- Admiral HMS Castanet
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
Both your scenarios are faulty.hobbyguy wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 11:37 amAs circumstances change, the implied employment contract changes.dirtybiker wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 11:10 am
Not sure the line of thought there. Why would EI end up as 'dud'
Employment conditions being changed mid stroke as to not
be beneficial to both parties should not affect an applicants
EI status.
Benefits were paid in. It is the company that changed a policy that was
causation for any employees facing dismissal.
Not the employees quality of their craft.
I see nothing on the employee, all employer.
Give 'em their EI, They more than earned it, it is their money to
access, Oh, I also contribute monies to the program, so, for my money,
I say grant it !
sidenote' absolute zero of any of this affects me in my field.
No one gives two spits about about the show outside our own
ring in the tent. We play to the crowd of our own circus.
When we didn't know about the hazards of asbestos, a set of working rules applied, and were changed. If workers refused to comply, out the door for cause.
When we didn't know about the real hazards of smoking, you could sit at your desk and smoke. A new set of rules came in when we did. Employees who did not comply were dismissed for cause.
In both of those examples, employees had an option they did not choose and therefore did not get EI. That's the way it works.
Conditions have changed again. Health and safety rules change and improve all the time. You either comply or get dismissed for cause. Dismissed for cause = no EI.
Employees working with asbestos were not told they must accept a relatively recently developed and still controversial medical procedure.
Employers could readily assess which employees in their workplace are handling asbestos in an unsafe manner. They didn't have to blindly assume that the employees who had taken the training were following the new procedures correctly, and that the employees who hadn't taken the training were all "doing it wrong" and putting others in the workplace at risk.
Vaccinated employees can still be doing the equivalent of sitting at their desks smoking - the employer cannot tell by vaccination status which employees are infectious and which are not.
If this was about making the workplace safer, testing would be mandatory - it's the only way to determine who is infectious and who is not. This isn't about compliance to make the workplace safer - it's about compliance.
Most academics operate in a rarified world where their highfalutin pontification is decoupled from reality. However, ideas have real consequences. Products, political systems, and policies that are incongruent with human nature always fail... Gad Saad
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- Banned
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.
So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.
And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.
And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
All posts 100% moderator approved!
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- Lord of the Board
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
crookedmember wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.
So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.
And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
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- Board Meister
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
Who then will be the next scapegoat when all these workplaces only have vaccinated employees and breakthroughs continue as they have been already? Maybe you can respond with a reasonable answer to the question instead of a lazy/stupid one.crookedmember wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.
So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.
And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
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- Buddha of the Board
- Posts: 15190
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
While I agree that vaccine mandates are he way to go, it is not correct to generalize those who are unvaccinated as lazy or stupid. There are a wide range of things that can lead to vaccine hesitancy. The die hard anti-vaxxers are another matter.crookedmember wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.
So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.
And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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- Buddha of the Board
- Posts: 15190
- Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.AtlantisKelowna wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:11 pmWho then will be the next scapegoat when all these workplaces only have vaccinated employees and breakthroughs continue as they have been already? Maybe you can respond with a reasonable answer to the question instead of a lazy/stupid one.crookedmember wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 3:54 pm It would be impossible for employers to constantly test employees for their infectious status. Think of employers with hundreds or thousands of employees. Think of the costs. Think of how quickly labs would be overrun.
So we choose the logical and best option. Keep the vaccinated employees who are very unlikely to carry and transmit the virus.
And fire those who act as incubators/spreaders because they are too lazy/stupid to get vaccinated
So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/
"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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- Board Meister
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
I understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.hobbyguy wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:20 pmIt isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.AtlantisKelowna wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:11 pm
Who then will be the next scapegoat when all these workplaces only have vaccinated employees and breakthroughs continue as they have been already? Maybe you can respond with a reasonable answer to the question instead of a lazy/stupid one.
So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/
"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
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- Lord of the Board
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
My prediction is Dogs and Cats. We already neuter them so why not anti covod them?AtlantisKelowna wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:41 pmI understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.hobbyguy wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:20 pm
It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.
So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/
"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
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- Buddha of the Board
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- Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 8:10 pm
Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
There will be no finger pointing from a rational perspective. Those of us who view things rationally are not pointing a finger at all, just following best practices for risk management. Looking for someone to blame is not part of rational thought in context.AtlantisKelowna wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:41 pmI understand that vaccinated people are less likely to get severe symptoms but the rest is speculation as the studies all varies so widely that putting a set percentage is still not possible. Yes, I would believe it is still better chances than unvaccinated people but is still completely possible.hobbyguy wrote: ↑Oct 29th, 2021, 4:20 pm
It isn't scapegoating. Vaccinated folks are 75% less likely to get infected and are infectious for much shorter periods of time. Plus vaccinated folks are far, far less likely to get seriously ill or die.
So for employers it is about health and safety, plus risk management. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... ing-covid/
"In the U.S., data from 16 states and jurisdictions, representing about 30 per cent of the population, show that, in August, unvaccinated people were at 6.1 times greater risk of testing positive for COVID-19 and 11.3 times greater risk of dying from it than fully vaccinated people, according to the CDC."
So, please tell me, who will the finger be pointed at once all unvaccinated people have been removed and breakthroughs are still occurring in the workplace?
However, the unvaccinated folks need to realize that they are annoying a lot of people by plugging up our hospitals and making it difficult for others to get care for other conditions. That will generate some finger pointing because people get very emotional when they can not get proper medical care.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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- Übergod
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
We should rename earth clown world.
It must be the only place in the galaxy where a "vaccination" doesn't protect you from the intended disease while authoritarian pinheads clap at the thought of stripping charter rights over a virus with an average rate of survival exceeding 90%
Denying people EI is unconscionable.
It must be the only place in the galaxy where a "vaccination" doesn't protect you from the intended disease while authoritarian pinheads clap at the thought of stripping charter rights over a virus with an average rate of survival exceeding 90%
Denying people EI is unconscionable.
Did you know 1 of 3 Biden voters are as dumb as the other 2? #LetsGoBrandon!
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- Buddha of the Board
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
I'm posting this from Traditional lands of the British Empire & the current Lands of The Dominion of Canada.
I also give thanks for this ethos richness bestowed on us via British Colonialism.
Stand up to Anti-Semitism.
I also give thanks for this ethos richness bestowed on us via British Colonialism.
Stand up to Anti-Semitism.
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- Admiral HMS Castanet
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
But it offers a lot of protection, a heck of a lot more than going without it, and it also protects those around you but let's just ignore that, okay? Survival rate isn't nearly as important to consider than death rate, or those who may suffer long-standing heralth issues, but let's just ignore that too, after all they're all old and fat, right ?
As far as I'm concerned, refusing the vaccination on the grounds of the "my rights" argument is selfish and irresponsible, and paying out EI in those cases is just subsidizing stupid.
"That wasn't very data-driven of you."
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- Guru
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Re: No EI for the unvaccinated
If one person dies from the vaccine being essentially forced on them to continue employment then that means whoever agrees with the mandate is ok with human sacrifice to save others.
Human sacrifice is never the correct answer.