BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sonny Taylor wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 11:31 pm
DataCruncher wrote: Nov 3rd, 2022, 2:27 pm Re: 'difference between "Upgrading" and fresh install"
Thing is, the SSD now in service is of a smaller capacity, and the reason I'm wanting to get everything onto the 2TB SSD.
*But please explain what differences I will encounter as it's not something I do often enough to know.
What's making this a bit complicated for me is your mention of numerous drives you have (be they SSD, USB or older drives with moving parts (real hard drives with a spinning platter and mechanical fast moving access arm). They are all conceptually the same to Windows; it doesn't care because they are all accessed with the same basic hardware protocol.

Do you have a handle on how these various drives (and/or their partitions) are mapped in windows (or your boot order specified in the BIOS?).

The boot order in the BIOS is important as it determines which drive your system will boot from when you restart or initially power up.

If you're not very sure of these things then you may want to choose the "upgrade" option on your new delivered install media (be it a CD or USB stick, same thing applies).



I assume You currently boot up Windows 7 when you startup. By default, the drive containing the operating system will be mapped to Windows 7 as your "C:" drive.

When your Win 10 install media arrives you can plug it in and find the "Setup.exe" file in it's root folder with Windows Explorer. (Or if you're Windows 7 configuration allows "autoplay" it will start automatically). Since you have an operating system (Win 7) installed, and you started "Setup.exe" using it, Setup will assume you want upgrade your currently booted operating system on your C drive (as opposed to a fresh install).

This is your easiest route to get to Win 10 from Win 7 if you don't want to get too technical and detailed.

Here's a general description of what will happen (you can stop it at a few points if you don't like what it's doing before committing to the upgrade. Once you've committed, don't try to stop it or you risk total corruption. You'll see it do automatic machine restarts perhaps several times in the process; just let it do it's automatic thing.

Setup will first try to update itself because the install media you are using doesn't have the latest Windows updates (almost guaranteed). Your machine speed and Internet speed will determine how long this will take (usually not too long) Leave it alone, let it do it's thing; but if you do kill it at that point, no harm has yet been done to your current system (you're not committed yet).

When you commit the upgrade:

Setup will save your Win 7 system folder (by renaming it) before installing Win 10 code in a new system folder. This is the "C:\Windows" folder. After the upgrade, you'll find your old "C:\Windows" (containing Win 7) renamed to "C:\Windows.old" or something like that. What you NOW see in "C:\Windows" will be the new Win 10 code.

Win 10 will keep your old Win 7 system folder for (I think) about 3 months before automatically deleting it. It will occupy about 30 Gigabytes until it's finally gone (you can delete it yourself if you want).

This "upgrade" will attempt to keep all of your software configurations from Win 7 and provide you with a desktop similar to what you knew before with your Icons for already installed software from Win 7.

I can't guarantee that all of the software you installed on Win 7 will properly run on your new Win 10. You appeared to describe a few very custom pieces of software critical to you with specific licensing requirements. But in my experience with upgrades from Win 7 to Win 10; it was easy to download newer versions of software when necessary, but most software for Win 7 should run without modification on Win 10; it's pretty transparent.

If you truly want a fresh install so you can manually rebuild the system as you knew it (as opposed to "upgrade" above) You've got a whole lot of headaches to overcome; pretty much as if you installed Win 10 on a new virgin machine (I can tell you how that works as well).



As a side note... What is "Boot"?

The commonly known term "Boot" generally refers to freshly starting an operating system on a computer. In the very old mainframe days this was actually called "IPL (or Initial Program Load)". That consisted of a hardware function to read a small program from the boot sector of a drive. That small program would then invoke (in a chain) many other programs to bring up the full operating system software. It was called a "Bootstrap Loader" and I think that's where the term "Boot" came from. Things are not all that much different these days for an operating system startup, although the end processes invoked by the simple first stage startup program are endlessly more complex now.
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Yes, I do understand mapped and BIOS order.
Spent many of hours over the years in BIOS setting and configs with various operating systems, so that shouldn't be a problem for me.
My present OS is booting from a smaller SSD and is very short on space. That's my main 'C' drive.

That's where I have a problem.

It's Intel, solid drive, reliable, and has been working for a few years without issues. But it's just too small and doesn't have the space I require. Not to overlook drive age.

Maybe a better option I should first consider is:
Copy my current W7 system with Macrium Reflect,
and mirror it onto the new 2TB SSD, and then do the upgrade there on the new drive.

That's something I haven't done before, yet willing to learn and try.

Your thoughts?
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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I know it's a big change in direction, but keeping the old OS/boot drive is a waste of time IMO.

I used to do the same and keep my old OS bootable. Never once was it worth the time or effort vs simply backing up my data.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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^^^ Backup!

There something you don't hear often enough. lol.

I have a quick backup story. A corporate customer needed to back-up a super-important computer that I had installed for them. Lots of live customer data on it. They had a local tech provide 'backup' services, but, the tech backed-up the very important computer to, another computer. The odds might have you believe you're in good shape. What are the odds of two computers dying in unison? Well, the odds were really good apparently, after a lightning storm.

At that point, they sent the HD away to a company that could restore it. $700 later, all was ok, minus two computers.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 8:39 am ^^^ Backup!

There something you don't hear often enough. lol.

I have a quick backup story. A corporate customer needed to back-up a super-important computer that I had installed for them. Lots of live customer data on it. They had a local tech provide 'backup' services, but, the tech backed-up the very important computer to, another computer. The odds might have you believe you're in good shape. What are the odds of two computers dying in unison? Well, the odds were really good apparently, after a lightning storm.

At that point, they sent the HD away to a company that could restore it. $700 later, all was ok, minus two computers.
Have had the opportunity to do similar and got back data I never thought possible.
Added this to my toolbox: https://getdata.com/recovermyfiles/

Q: about lightning

How near does a strike on the ground need to be in order to affect components?
Reason I ask,
there was a time when we had one strike behind the house somewhere, not exactly sure of the location, but noticeably close from my peripherals.

Immediately following, I had a stick of RAM die.
Coincidence, or related?
And if related, I'm not clear on how that works as I figured being grounded, albeit through a cheaper surge protector, would offer protection.

(have since attached a 3840 Jewels TRIPP LITE to prevent future surges, if that was the cause)
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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That's good! Can't be protected enough!

I installed something like this:
A surge suppressor for the whole house at the electric panel.

https://blog.oppedahl.com/?p=6777
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 1:39 pm That's good! Can't be protected enough!

I installed something like this:
A surge suppressor for the whole house at the electric panel.

https://blog.oppedahl.com/?p=6777

Am quite pleased of what I read, and now have more insight.

This I was only recently aware of:

...that power strip may have absorbed a lightning strike during those twenty years and may have undergone permanent internal changes so that it is no longer providing meaningful surge protection.

And this:

Or it may have absorbed fifty smaller surges that led to a similar degradation in protection.
Cumulative. A number of medium sized surges over a period of time could cause bits of harm that add up.



And this feature is the best:

audible alarm


Probably a USD price @ $180, however, it comes across as being affordable.

We happen to have an electrician in the family, so I'm going to address this with them with intentions of moving forward.

Many thanks for that link. :up:

And on a side note, I've a couple UPS units on the floor, however the batteries need replacing.
Do you recommend them for stability?
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Exactly. A home surge suppressor is probably cost effective. The Metal-Oxide Varistors (MOV) in a power-bar only absorb so much energy before they cease working. Replace them all every few years? That can be expensive. I think it is easier to have one point of service, and the home surge protectors can absorb much more energy. They also tell you when they need to be replaced. SIEMENS is a good brand. After 6 years so far, I have not had an issue with it.

I have an UPS. I don't have one for every computer. Certainly, it can help you feel safe and give enough time to gracefully shut down a PC.

Saying that, operating systems can generally recover from an abrupt shut down most of the time. I don't buy UPS any more, although I used to years back. The grid is fairly reliable and I do backups. In this instance, you are risking data integrity, rather than hardware. If you have backups, you may only be inconvenienced. In regards to 'power conditioning', if you have surge suppression, and a good quality PC power-supply... I would tend to think you'd be fine, hardware-wise. A quality power-supply filters noise and regulates voltage despite line fluctuations.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 2:52 pm Exactly. A home surge suppressor is probably cost effective. The Metal-Oxide Varistors (MOV) in a power-bar only absorb so much energy before they cease working. Replace them all every few years? That can be expensive. I think it is easier to have one point of service, and the home surge protectors can absorb much more energy. They also tell you when they need to be replaced. SIEMENS is a good brand. After 6 years so far, I have not had an issue with it.

I have an UPS. I don't have one for every computer. Certainly, it can help you feel safe and give enough time to gracefully shut down a PC.

Saying that, operating systems can generally recover from an abrupt shut down most of the time. I don't buy UPS any more, although I used to years back. The grid is fairly reliable and I do backups. In this instance, you are risking data integrity, rather than hardware. If you have backups, you may only be inconvenienced. In regards to 'power conditioning', if you have surge suppression, and a good quality PC power-supply... I would tend to think you'd be fine, hardware-wise. A quality power-supply filters noise and regulates voltage despite line fluctuations.
-Heard of a retail outlet that recently did change theirs all out. My thoughts were the same, an expensive ritual as there's no way of knowing, and too much of a risk not to do. Maybe it's something they should consider.

-That's a worthy feature to invest in, for sure.

-Can't quite recall which it was at one time, perhaps Win 2000?,
that if it didn't shut down properly, was annoying as heck when trying to boot up again.
Was frustrating.

-I know I should more often, however do the backups once a week.

Keep it coming, I'd love to learn more from you.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Home surge suppressor might also be an only option. If you live in an older home with ungrounded electrical outlets, even a power-bar won’t work with no return to ground. Your TV, receiver, router, cable box, computers, and everything is protected with a home surge protector.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 4:12 pm Home surge suppressor might also be an only option. If you live in an older home with ungrounded electrical outlets, even a power-bar won’t work with no return to ground. Your TV, receiver, router, cable box, computers, and everything is protected with a home surge protector.

Gotcha. ;)

Q:
Do ground fault outlets or breakers do the same?
Last edited by DataCruncher on Nov 4th, 2022, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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DataCruncher wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 4:39 pm
Jlabute wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 4:12 pm Home surge suppressor might also be an only option. If you live in an older home with ungrounded electrical outlets, even a power-bar won’t work with no return to ground. Your TV, receiver, router, cable box, computers, and everything is protected with a home surge protector.
Oops.

Gotcha. ;)

Q:
Do ground fault outlets or breakers do the same?
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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A ground fault outlets/breakers are similar, although they do not stop surges that I am aware of. Usually they require ground in order to detect a ground fault. An internal circuit measures current flow to ground and trips the switch. If there is no ground, I would guess they could still trip when there us a short circuit, or too much current.
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 4th, 2022, 6:51 pm A ground fault outlets/breakers are similar, although they do not stop surges that I am aware of. Usually they require ground in order to detect a ground fault. An internal circuit measures current flow to ground and trips the switch. If there is no ground, I would guess they could still trip when there us a short circuit, or too much current.
I should have known that. (smacks self in forehead) [icon_lol2.gif]

Another question if I may.
I accidentally ordered a 6TB hard drive almost three years back, and as I recall it's a SAS drive.
To my understanding, that drive can only be hooked up to a server, which I don't have.
So it's been packed away ever since, though wonder if there are any interfaces/adapters out there that will make it usable for the workstation?
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Sure, you could purchase a controller card for it which is probably worth more than the drive if you want to get the stated throughput. Is it 12gb/s and uses PCIx 3.0? You’d have to check around for what would be suitable for you. Either that or buy an M.2 SSD flash card.

Your mobo specs say you can use this, and it is $600+.

https://www.asus.com/Commercial-Servers ... ductPrint/
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Re: BIOS flash on ASUS board, or...

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Jlabute wrote: Nov 5th, 2022, 7:00 am Sure, you could purchase a controller card for it which is probably worth more than the drive if you want to get the stated throughput. Is it 12gb/s and uses PCIx 3.0? You’d have to check around for what would be suitable for you. Either that or buy an M.2 SSD flash card.

Your mobo specs say you can use this, and it is $600+.

https://www.asus.com/Commercial-Servers ... ductPrint/
600 bones? Yipes.
I feel I can get another drive for less than that.
I used to run a Promise RAID card back in the Win 2k days, but gave it away to a friend who needed it more than I did. Wonder if that old card would have worked today. :135:

I also have an M.2 stick, 1TB, but the Xeon workstation doesn't accept that size on the MOBO.
Could I pluck the board and frankenstein it into an old SSD shell? (have always wondered)
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